Discussion:
the Wholecaust & the "Roman Salute" myth
(too old to reply)
rexitis
2004-05-08 02:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Did U.S. socialists create the straight-armed "Roman salute" and cause
WWII and the socialist Wholecaust? In 1892, Francis Bellamy was a national
socialist in the U.S. and created the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag using
a straight-armed salute (http://members.ij.net/rex/pledge1.html). Bellamy
wanted the government to takeover all schools and create an "industrial
army" of totalitarian socialism as described in the book "Looking Backward"
(a bestseller written in 1887 by Edward Bellamy, cousin of Francis Bellamy
http://members.ij.net/rex/pledgebackward.html). Government-schools grew and
they mandated racism and segregation by law and did so through WWII and
beyond (http://members.ij.net/rex/stopthepledge4.html).

Edward Bellamy's best-selling book was translated into 20 different
languages, including Russian, German, Italian, and Chinese. It was popular
among the elite in pre-revolutionary Russia, and Lenin's wife was known to
have read the book, because she wrote a review of it. John Dewey and the
historian Charles Beard intended to praise the book when they stated that it
was equaled in influence only by Das Kapital.

25 years later, Bellamy's totalitarian ideas continued. The Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics began in 1917. The National Socialist German
Workers' Party came into existence in 1920 (with electoral breakthroughs in
1930 and dictatorship in 1933). In 1922, Mussolini gained power. The
People's Republic of China began in 1949.

The socialist Wholecaust followed shortly after the worldwide impact of
Bellamy's totalitarian ideas. Under the industrial army of the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics, 62 million people were slaughtered; the
People's Republic of China, 35 million; and the National Socialist German
Workers' Party, 21 million (numbers from Professor R. J. Rummel's article in
the Encyclopedia of Genocide (1999)) (see
Loading Image...).

Benito Mussolini was the leader of the Socialist Party of Italy. Like
many modern media Mussolinis, he was a socialist and a journalist. Between
1912 and 1914 he was the editor of the Socialist Party newspaper, "L'Avanti"
(Avanti means "in front", "advance" or "forward" or even "come in"). In 1914
he started his own socialist newspaper "Il Popolo d'Italia" ("The people of
Italy"). He was considered by socialists to be a great writer about
socialism. He was a staunch proponent of revolutionary rather than reformist
socialism, and actually received Lenin's endorsement and support for
expelling reformists from the Socialist Party. He was in fact first dubbed
"Il Duce" (the Leader) when he was a member of Italy's (Marxist) Socialist
Party. When Mussolini differed with some Socialists it was over
participation in World War I, not over abstract theory, or economic
doctrine. Many socialists were neutralists in the First World War, whereas
Mussolini correctly foresaw that the Austro/German forces would not win the
war and therefore wanted Italy to join the Allied side and thus get a slice
of Austrian territory at the end of the war. During World War I, Mussolini
publicized what he admitted was his new brand of socialism.

On October 28, 1922, Mussolini led his "March on Rome", which brought
him to power for 23 years.

In late 1937, Mussolini visited Germany and pledged himself to support
the National Socialist German Workers' Party. In 1938, he introduced his
'reform of customs.'" Hand-shaking was suddenly banned as unhygienic: a
salute was to be used instead - the right forearm raised vertically. He
imposed a new march on the Italian Army which was simply the goose-step of
the National Socialist German Workers' Party. According to the book "A
Concise History of Italy" by Christopher Duggan, these reforms were
introduced mainly to underline ideological kinship with the National
Socialist German Workers' Party and to impress it's leader. The so-called
"Roman salute" (saluto romano) is as much of a fiction as the so-called
"Roman step" (passo romano) as is the idea that the National Socialist
German Workers' Party emulated Mussolini and not vice versa. The most
notorious instance of Italy imitating the National Socialist German Workers'
Party was in the racist laws imposed in November 1938.

Before and during it all (from 1892), children in the U.S. attended
government-schools where racism and segregation were mandated by law, and
where they performed a straight-armed salute to the U.S. flag, and were
forced to robotically chant a Pledge written by a national socialist who
wanted to produce an "industrial army" for totalitarian socialism as
popularized worldwide in a best-selling novel.

WWII began in 1939 when Poland was invaded by the National Socialist
German Workers' Party and by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, as
allies in their scheme to divide up Eastern Europe.
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialistwar.html

The raised-arm salute is one of the best-known symbols of the National
Socialist German Workers' Party, and supposedly used by Mussolini from a
classical Roman custom. According to Martin Winkler in "The Roman Salute on
Film" of the American Philological Association, no Roman work of art
displays this salute, nor does any Roman text describe it.

Winkler notes that well before Mussolini and the National Socialist
German Workers' Party, the salute frequently occurs in films set in
antiquity. What Winkler fails to realize is that every film he cites was
produced after 1892 and thus after the widespread use of the Pledge of
Allegiance to the U.S. flag, and it's original straight-arm salute.

Winkler cites the American Ben-Hur (1907) or the Italian Nerone (1908),
although such films did not yet standardize the salute or make it
exclusively Roman. In Spartaco (1914), even Spartacus used it. Winkler
states "In imitation of such historical films, self-styled "Consul" Gabriele
D'Annunzio appropriated the salute in its now familiar form as a propaganda
tool for his political aspirations upon his occupation of Fiume in 1919.
Earlier, D'Annunzio had been closely involved in Giovanni Pastrone's
colossal epic Cabiria (1914), in which variations of the salute occur
several times." Notable other examples of the salute, by then a standard
part of ancient iconography in the cinema, appear in Ben-Hur (1925) and in
Cecil B. DeMille's Sign of the Cross (1932) and Cleopatra (1934), although
the execution of the gesture was still variable.

Winkler adds "Of particular importance for the visual record are two
films by Leni Riefenstahl, Triumph of the Will (1935) and Olympia (1938). As
is to be expected, the former regularly features the salute; the latter
shows Hitler, German spectators and officials in Berlin's Olympic stadium,
and several victorious German and Italian athletes giving it. So do a number
of athletic teams entering the stadium. In Italy, Carmine Gallone's Scipione
l'Africano (1937) uses the raised-arm salute as one of its chief visual
means to turn Mussolini into a new Scipio." He notes that the salute is
used in more recent films, sometimes to lesser degrees, and notes that when
a new Commodus triumphantly enters Rome in Ridley Scott's Gladiator (2000),
the salute no longer occurs.


(For more ideas on liberty and the libertarian philosophy see
http://members.ij.net/rex and http://rexcurry.net from Rex Curry at
***@ij.net or ***@interaccess.net or ***@hotmail.com).

Roman military salute.

hand to the chest.





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g***@internet.charitydays.co.uk
2004-05-08 03:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Is The Pledge to The Constitution or to The Federal Government ?
________________________________________________________



Which takes priority over the other ?
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||



http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


http://mentock.home.mindspring.com/pledge.htm



________________________________________________________
rexitis
2004-05-08 11:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your support. A lot of your links on the mentock url don't work
though.
Thanks again.
Rex




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J Dubya
2004-05-08 07:50:24 UTC
Permalink
"rexitis" <***@ij.net> wrote some whinging I didn't bother to read in
message news:<409c4a61$***@corp.newsgroups.com>...

rex,
If you want anyone to read your deluded ravings, I suggest you
pass them through a spell checker first.

http://www.google.com/search?q=define:Holocaust

HTH, HAND,
-Jeremy
rexitis
2004-05-08 11:28:43 UTC
Permalink
"J Dubya" <***@netscape.net> wrote some ironically ignorant things
that I bothered to read in message news:***@posting.google.com...

J Dubya, If you want anyone to read your ignorant comments, I suggest you
pass them through a brain first. Or try googling "Wholecaust"

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wholecaust

Although the Holocaust was monstrous, it wasn't the whole story, it was only
a part of the much bigger socialist Wholecaust under the socialist trio of
atrocities in which the National Socialist German Workers' Party slaughtered
21 million people; Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, 62 million people;
the People's Republic of China, 35 million; (numbers from Professor R. J.
Rummel's article in the Encyclopedia of Genocide (1999)) see
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialists.jpg

to learn more see http://members.ij.net/rex/socialists.html
http://members.ij.net/rex/swastikamain.html

P.S. WWII began in 1939 when Poland was invaded by the National Socialist
German Workers' Party and by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, as
allies in their scheme to divide up Eastern Europe.
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialistwar.html





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J Dubya
2004-05-08 23:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by rexitis
J Dubya, If you want anyone to read your ignorant comments, I suggest you
pass them through a brain first. Or try googling "Wholecaust"
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wholecaust
OTOH, http://www.google.com/search?q=define:Wholecaust sez

"No definitions were found for Wholecaust."

The world "holocaust" already means the mass destruction of humans by
other humans. It derives from the Greek. C.f.,
http://www.bartleby.com/61/34/H0243400.html

Your "wholecaust" is a malapropism, cobbled together from two
different languages, and it has exactly the same meaning as
"holocaust."

-Jeremy
rexitis
2004-05-09 08:53:09 UTC
Permalink
OTOH googling "Wholecaust" provides hundreds of results that explain its
obvious great usefulness and value.


http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wholecaust

The definition you cited perfectly highlights the selective bias problem
from which you suffer.

The definition you cited states "Sixty percent of the Panel accepts the
sentence 'As many as two million people may have died in the holocaust that
followed the Khmer Rouge takeover in Cambodia.'"

Not only is the word not capitalized (which alone alters the meaning) in the
example above, but it is a classic selective/biased example that perpetuates
the rampant ignorance of magnitude of the socialist Wholecaust by the
socialist trio of atrocities in which the National Socialist German Workers'
Party slaughtered 21 million people; Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, 62
million people;
the People's Republic of China, 35 million; (numbers from Professor R. J.
Rummel's article in the Encyclopedia of Genocide (1999)) see
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialists.jpg
(and all of the associated bias including the myth of the "Roman salute" and
rampant ignorance of the fact that WWII began in 1939 when Poland was
invaded by the National Socialist German Workers' Party and by the Union of
Soviet Socialist Republics, as allies in their scheme to divide up Eastern
Europe.
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialistwar.html )

The definition you cited states "But because of its associations with
genocide, people may object to extended applications of holocaust." That
perfectly explains why people who object to the extended application prefer
to use the term "Wholecaust."

The definition you cited states "When capitalized Holocaust refers
specifically to the destruction of Jews and other Europeans by the Nazis and
may also encompass the Nazi persecution of Jews that preceded the outbreak
of the war." Again showing that the capitalized version of the word is even
more restrictive than you let on in your biased response, so that the word
"Wholecaust" is not the same word, but is inclusive along with the other
socialist atrocities in which the National Socialist German Workers' Party
slaughtered 21 million people; Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, 62
million people;
the People's Republic of China, 35 million; (numbers from Professor R. J.
Rummel's article in the Encyclopedia of Genocide (1999)) see
http://members.ij.net/rex/socialists.jpg

to learn more see http://members.ij.net/rex/socialists.html
http://members.ij.net/rex/swastikamain.html





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RM Mentock
2004-05-09 15:31:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by rexitis
Thanks for your support. A lot of your links on the mentock url don't
work
Post by rexitis
though.
Thanks again.
Rex
Sorry about that. I'll have to fix that.

The Pledge of Allegiance page http://mentock.home.mindspring.com/pledge.htm
has seven links, three of which do not now work. Two were the result of
Duane
Streufert switching to his own website, http://www.usflag.org/ so the
"opposing
views" (of David A. Milanaik) can be found at
http://www.usflag.org/opposing.view.html
Streufert removed the National Symbol essay by Charles Evans Hughes, but it
can
be found at http://www.buchanan.org/h-112.html

Wayne Powers comments (against "indivisible") are no longer to be found, but
similar sentiments are displayed at http://www.dixienet.org and
http://www.leagueofthesouth.com . In particular, these two:
Overcoming the "Sour Grapes" Version of Southern History by John P. George
http://www.dixienet.org/spatriot/vol2no2/sourgrap.html
I Pledge Allegiance to What? by Rev Phillip J. Palmertree
http://www.leagueofthesouth.com/spatriot/vol4no6/pledge.htm

I'll update the links on the webpage. Thanks

--
RM Mentock

REALITY laughs at spacetime -- Spaceman
J Dubya
2004-05-10 10:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by rexitis
OTOH googling "Wholecaust" provides hundreds of results that explain its
obvious great usefulness and value.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wholecaust
No online dictionary recognizes "Wholecaust" as a word. The fact that
hundreds of hits are returned for a general Google search on
"Wholecaust" only means that there are a lot of semi-literate people
with access to computers.
Post by rexitis
The definition you cited perfectly highlights the selective bias problem
from which you suffer.
WTF are you babbling about? I never said anything about the mass
murder of non-Jews during & after WWII. I recognize totalitarianism's
horrific abuses & mass murders, of Jews and of non-Jews.

Once again, if your goal is to inform and educate people about the
multitude of non-Jews slaughtered in that time under totalitarian
regimes, you will be much more effective if you avoid malapropisms.

HTH, HAND,
-Jeremy
Daniel Ruth
2024-01-24 19:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by rexitis
OTOH googling "Wholecaust" provides hundreds of results that explain its
obvious great usefulness and value.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=wholecaust
No online dictionary recognizes "Wholecaust" as a word. The fact that
hundreds of hits are returned for a general Google search on
"Wholecaust" only means that there are a lot of semi-literate people
with access to computers.
Post by rexitis
The definition you cited perfectly highlights the selective bias problem
from which you suffer.
WTF are you babbling about? I never said anything about the mass
murder of non-Jews during & after WWII. I recognize totalitarianism's
horrific abuses & mass murders, of Jews and of non-Jews.
Once again, if your goal is to inform and educate people about the
multitude of non-Jews slaughtered in that time under totalitarian
regimes, you will be much more effective if you avoid malapropisms.
HTH, HAND,
-Jeremy
Google Ngram searches support Dr. Curry’s scholarship regarding the phrase “Roman salute”. The idea of the “Roman Salute” did not exist at the time that the socialist Francis Bellamy created the USA’s Pledge of Allegiance to the flag (the origin of the stiff-armed salute -and related behavior- that was adopted later under German socialism). The concept/term "ancient Roman salute" was dreamed up decades after Bellamy wrote the pledge of Allegiance. Bellamy certainly did specify a gesture and he did NOT reference any "ancient Roman salute" myth (as it didn’t exist then).

Another fascinating part of the Ngram search is that there is a rise in use of “Roman Salute” around the year 2000. That is around when Dr. Curry discovered that the USA’s pledge of allegiance (by the socialist Bellamy) was the origin of the stiff-armed salute (and related behavior) that was adopted later under German socialism. In response to Dr. Curry’s discovery, socialists (including socialists on Wikipedia) created the lie that it was an “ancient Roman salute” to deliberately cover up and/or ignore Dr. Curry’s achievement. Wakipedia continues to be the source of the very common “ancient Roman salute” lie even though Wikipedia became cagier in its deception because Dr. Curry debunked the “ancient Roman salute” myth and exposed its dishonest use on Wikipedia. Socialists continue to write about the “Roman salute” to mislead readers into believing it was ancient.

In that sense, Dr. Curry’s revelation regarding the early pledge salute is the reason for the steep rise of the occurrence of “Roman Salute” in the Ngram after that time (after the year 2000) as the term is presently used as a lie and to mislead people about the gesture, and to ignore the role of the USA’s pledge of allegiance.
neptune3
2004-05-08 16:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by rexitis
Did U.S. socialists create the straight-armed "Roman salute" and cause
WWII and the socialist Wholecaust?
During World War Two the Germans put Jews and Communists in
concentration camps. The USA locked also up the Japanese and their
political opponants and for less reason. At the end of the war there
was a lot of deaths in the German camps from disease and starvation
because Germany was being bombed to rubble. There is no evidence that
the Germans had gas chambers or an extermination plan.

Newsweek magazine May 15, 1989 says on page 64:

"the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
would quarrel over just what happened"

The real reason there are no records of an extermination plan is
because there was no extermination plan. The Germans planned to deport
the Jews out of Germany. The records show that they planned to move
them to Madagascar.


Here is part of the Leuchter Report:

"Thirty-one samples were selectively removed from the alleged gas
chambers at Kremas I, II, III, IV and V. A control sample was taken
from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. The control sample was removed
from a delousing chamber in a location where cyanide was known to have
been used and was apparently present as blue staining. Chemical
testing of the control sample #32 showed a cyanide content of 1050
mg/kg, a very heavy concentration. The conditions at areas from which
these samples were taken are identical with those of the control
sample, cold, dark, and wet. Only Kremas IV and V differed, in the
respect that these locations had sunlight (the buildings have been
torn down) and sunlight may hasten the destruction of uncomplexed
cyanide. The cyanide combines with the iron in the mortar and brick
and becomes ferric-ferro-cyanide or prussian blue pigmentation, a very
stable iron-cyanide complex.
"The locations from which the analyzed samples were removed are
set out in Table III.
"It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that
the few that were positive were very close to the detection level
(1mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krerma I. The absense
of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as
compared to the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the
evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The
small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these
buildings were deloused with Zyklon B - as were all the buildings at
all these facilities"

Critics of the Leuchter report have tried to explain this by
saying it takes more cyanide to kill lice than humans and the "gas
chambers" were in ruins. But 1050 mg/kg is still a lot more than the
max of 7.9. And they have admitted that the "gas chamber" which is
shown to the tourists at Auschwitz was actually built by the allies
after the war was over. This is what they wrote:

Brian Harmon <***@msg.ucsf.edu> wrote in article
<080620000051136373%***@msg.ucsf.edu>...

"You're confusing Krema I with Kremas II-V. Krema I is a
reconstruction, this has never been a secret. Kremas II-V
are in their demolished state as they were left."

Charles Don Hall <cdhall-***@erols.com> wrote in article
<***@news.erols.com>...

"Certainly not! The word "fake" implies a deliberate attempt to
deceive.

"The staff of the Auschwitz museum will readily explain that the Nazis
tried to destroy the gas chambers in a futile attempt to conceal their
crimes. And they'll tell you that reconstruction was done later on. So
it
would be dishonest for me to call it a "fake". I'll cheerfully admit
that
it's a "reconstruction" if that makes you happy."

They admit that the "gas chamber" shown to the tourists at
Auschwitz was built by the allies after the war was over. There is no
physical evidence that the Germans had gas chambers. No bodies of
people who died from gas have been found. The Communists were the
first to enter the camps. How do the other allies know the Communists
didn't blow up the buildings? Then they could claim that these
demolished buildings used to be gas chambers.

But then the believers will say the Gemans confessed. Their main
confession is from Hoess. Here are the details:

"In the introduction to Death Dealer [Buffalo: Prometheus, 1992],
the
historian Steven Paskuly wrote: "Just after his capture in 1946, the
British Security Police were able to extract a statement from Hoess
by
beating him and filling him with liquor." Paskuly was reiterating
what
Rupert Butler and Bernard Clarke had already described.

In 1983, Rupert Butler published an unabashed memoir (Legions of
Death,
Hamlyn: London) describing in graphic detail how, over three days, he
and
Clarke and other British policemen managed to torture Hoess into
making a
"coherent statement." According to Butler [Legions of Death, p. 237],
he
and the other interrogators put the boots to Hoess the moment he was
captured. For starters, Clarke struck his face four times to get
Höess to
reveal his true identity.

<quote>
The admission suddenly unleashed the loathing of Jewish sergeants in
the
arresting party whose parents had died in Auschwitz following an
order
signed by Höss.

The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his
body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables,
where it
seemed to Clarke the blows and screams were endless.

Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: "Call them off,
unless
you want to take back a corpse."

A blanket was thrown over Höss and he was dragged to Clarke's car,
where
the sergeant poured a substantial slug of whisky down his throat.
Höss
tried to sleep.

Clarke thrust his service stick under the man's eyelids and ordered
in
Geffnan: "Keep your pig eyes open, you swine."

For the first time Höss trotted out his oft-repeated justification:
"I
took my orders frorn Himmler. I was a soldier in the same way as you
are
a soldier and we had to obey orders."

The party arrived back at Heide around three in the morning. The
snow was
swirling still, but the blanket was torn from Höss and he was made to
walk
completely nude through the prison yard to his cell.
</quote>

An article in the Britsh newspaper Wrexham Leader [Mike Mason, "In a
cell with
a Nazi war criminal -- We kept him awake until he confessed," October
17,
1986] following the airing of a TV documentary on the case of Rudolf
Hoess
included eyewitness recollections by Ken Jones:

<quote>
Mr. Ken Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery
stationed at Heid[e] in Schleswig-Holstein. "They brought him to us
when
he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activities during
the
war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail
cell in
the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed
with
Mr. Jones to join Höss in his cell to help break him down for
interrogation. "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed
with
axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to
help
break down his resistance," said Mr. Jones. When Höss was taken out
for
exercise he was made to wear only jeans and a cotton shirt in the
bitter
cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Höss finally broke
down
and made a full confession to the authorities.
</quote>

The confession Hoess signed was numbered document NO-1210; later
revamped,
as document PS-3868, which became the basis for an oral deposition
Hoess
made for the IMT on April 15, 1946, a month after it had been
extracted
from him by torture...


Since what people confess to after they have been captured by the
Communists and their liberal comrades is not proof of anything, this
leaves only the stories of survivors. These contradict each other and
not believable. One professional survivor said that he could tell if
the Germans were gassing German Jews or Polish Jews by the color of
the smoke.

The fact that there are so many "survivors" is not proof of an
extermination plan. There may be six million survivors. Just about
every Jew that is old says he is a survivor.

The real "holocaust" was when the Communist Jews murdered millions
of Christians. Communism was Jewish. Here is proof:

Article Winston Churchill wrote in 1920:

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new.
From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down
to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany)
and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the
overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the
basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible
equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer,
Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part
in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of
every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at
last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian
people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the
undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to
exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the
actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international
and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal
inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)


Lev Trotzky wrote a book called "Stalin: An Appraisal of the Man
and His Influence", Harper Bros., New York and London, 1941,
translated by Charles Malamuth.

In this book he told who the principle members of the October
Central Committee were. This group was the leadership of the Bolshevik
Party during the October Revolution. This is what he wrote:

"In view of the Party's semi-legality the names of persons
elected by secret ballot were not announced at the Congress, with the
exception of the four who had recieved the largest number of votes.
Lenin--133 out of a possible 134, Zinoviev--132, Kamenev--131,
Trotzky--131."

Of these four top leaders of the Bolshevik Party the last three
were known Jews. Lenin was thought to be a gentile married to a
Jewess. It was later proven that he was one quarter Jewish, London
Jewish Chronicle April 21, 1995, Lenin: Life and Legacy.

David Francis, the American Ambassador to Russia at the time of the
Revolution, wrote:

"The Bolshevic leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent
of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other
country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a
world-wide revolution."

The Director of British Intelligence to the U.S. Secretary of State
wrote this:

"There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international
movement controlled by Jews."

In 1945 the FBI arrested six individuals for stealing 1700 highly
confidential documents from State Department files. This was the
Amerasia case they were:

Philip Jaffe, a Russian Jew who came to the U.S. in 1905. He was at
one time the editor of the communist paper "Labor Defense" and the
ringleader of the group arrested.

Andrew Roth, a Jew.

Mark Gayn, a Jew, changed his name from Julius Ginsberg.

John Service, a gentile.

Emmanuel Larsen, nationality unknown

Kate Mitchel, nationality unknown.

In 1949 the Jewess Judith Coplin was caught passing classified
documents from Justice Department files to a Russian agent.

The highest ranking communist brought to trial in the U.S. was
Gerhart Eisler. He was a Jew. He was the secret boss of the Communist
Party in the U.S. and commuted regularly between the U.S. and Russia.

In 1950 there was the "Hollywood Ten" case. Ten leading film
writers of the Hollywood Film Colony were convicted for contempt of
Congress and sentanced to prison. Nine of the ten were Jews. Six of
the ten were communist party members and the other four were
flagrantly pro-communist.

One of the top new stories of 1949 was the trial of Eugene Dennis
and the Convicted Eleven. This group comprised the National
Secretariat of the American Communist Party. Six were Jews, two
gentiles, three nationality unknown.

Also in 1949 the German-born atomic scientist Klaus Fuchs was
convicted for passing atomic secrets to the Russians. Acting on
information obtained from Fuchs the FBI arrested nine other members of
the ring. All of them were convicted. Eight of the nine were Jews.

Here are some quotes from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.

"But save for such exceptions, the Jews who led or participated
in the heroic efforts to remold the world of the last century, were
neither Reform or Orthodox. Indeed, they were often not professing
Jews at all.
"For instance, there was Heinrich Heine and Ludwig Borne, both
unfaltering champions of freedom. And even more conspicuously, there
was Karl Marx, one of the great prophetic geniuses of modern times.
"Jewish historians rarely mention the name of this man, Karl
Marx, though in his life and spirit he was far truer to the mission of
Israel than most of those who were forever talking of it. He was born
in Germany in 1818, and belonged to an old rabbinic family. He was not
himself reared as a Jew, however, but while still a child was baptized
a Christian by his father. Yet the rebel soul of the Jew flamed in him
thoughout his days, for he was always a 'troubler' in Europe."


"Then, of course, there are Ludwig Borne and Heinrich Heine, two
men who by their merciless wit and sarcasm became leaders among the
revolutionary writers. Karl Marx, Ferdinand Lassalle, Johann Jacoby,
Gabriel Riesser, Adolphe Cremieux, Signora Nathan- all these of Jewish
lineage played important roles in the struggle that went thoughout
Europe in this period. Wherever the war for human liberty was being
waged, whether in France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, or Italy, there
the Jew was to be found. It was little wonder that the enemies of
social progress, the monarchists and the Churchmen, came to speak of
the whole liberal movement as nothing but a Jewish plot."

The book "Soviet Russia and the Jews" by Gregor Aronson and
published by the American Jewish League Against Communism, quotes
Stalin in an interview in 1931 with the Jewish Telegraph Agency.
Stalin said:

"...Communists cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of
Anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the
Soviet Union. Active anti-Semites are punished by death under the
law."

The following quotes are taken directly from documents available from
the
U.S. Archives:

State Department document 861.00/1757 sent May 2, 1918 by U.S. consul
general in Moscow, Summers: "Jews prominant in local Soviet
government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population...."

State Department document 861.00/2205 was sent from Vladivostok on
July 5, 1918 by U.S. consul Caldwell: "Fifty percent of Soviet
government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type."

From the Headquarters of the American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia
on
March 1, 1919, comes this telegram from Omsk by Chief of Staff, Capt.
Montgomey Shuyler: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the
United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since it's
beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest
type"
type."

A second Schuyler telegram, dated June 9, 1919 from Vladivostok,
reports on the make-up of the presiding Soviet government:
"...(T)here
were 384 `commissars' including 2 negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen,
22 Armenians, AND MORE THAN 300 JEWS. Of the latter number, 264 had
come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the
Imperial Government.

The Netherlands' ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, confirmed this:
"Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to
spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it
is
organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one
object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of
things."
"The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of
Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a
new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in
Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish
dissatisfaction
and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental an
physical forces, become a reality all over the world." (The American
Hebrew, September 10, 1920

"In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet
communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of
the total population." (Stuart Kahan, The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81)

Interestingly, one of the first acts by the Bolsheviks was to make
so-called "anti-Semitism" a capital crime. This is confirmed by
Stalin
himself:

"National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic
customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism,
as
an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige
of
cannibalism...under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the
death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).


Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried
to
read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in
doing
so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning
something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous
stuff.
From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to
mind the
names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most
of
them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic
representatives in
the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions
and
the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented
itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David,
Adler,
Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was
that
this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social
Democratic
Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for
months
past."

Solzhenitsyn named in his book the six top administrators of the
Soviet death camps. All six of them were Jews.

Here is something the National Socialists wrote:

"The Soviet Union was in fact a paradise for one group: the Jews. Even
at times when for foreign policy reasons Jews were less evident in the
government, or when they ruled through straw men, the Jews were always
visible in the middle and lower levels of the administration."





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Courageous
2004-05-08 16:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by neptune3
because Germany was being bombed to rubble. There is no evidence that
the Germans had gas chambers or an extermination plan.
My grandfather, who was personally present at these affairs,
would disagree with you. I'm interested: who do you think I'm
going to believe? My grandfather, or some deranged yahoo from
usenet?

C//
neptune3
2004-05-08 16:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Courageous
My grandfather, who was personally present at these affairs,
would disagree with you. I'm interested: who do you think I'm
going to believe? My grandfather, or some deranged yahoo from
usenet?
If he was a witness to something isn't it strange that you didn't
bother to post what he saw?

"Toward the end of World War II I was a US Army captain on the staff
of
Ambassador Robert Murphy, political advisor to General Eisenhower. I
was at
Dachau about a month after it had been liberated, either the end of
May or
the beginning of June, 1945. *There was no gas chamber there, nor did
I see
one in the process of construction.* What did occur was that some
higher
authority in the American occupation government, whether a civilian or
military, I don't know, decreed that a gas chamber should be built,
which
was subsequently done.

I was also at the Buchenwald camp a few days after it was liberated on
April
11, 1945. *There was a crematory there but no gas chamber.*"

Homer G. Richey
Charlottesville, Virginia
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html


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Courageous
2004-05-08 18:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Courageous
My grandfather, who was personally present at these affairs,
would disagree with you. I'm interested: who do you think I'm
going to believe? My grandfather, or some deranged yahoo from
usenet?
If he was a witness to something isn't it strange...
No, it's not strange.

You, in your narcissism, give yourself more credit than you are due.

C//
neptune3
2004-05-09 18:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Courageous
Post by Courageous
My grandfather, who was personally present at these affairs,
would disagree with you. I'm interested: who do you think I'm
going to believe? My grandfather, or some deranged yahoo from
usenet?
If he was a witness to something isn't it strange...
No, it's not strange.
You, in your narcissism, give yourself more credit than you are due.
"Rudolph Vrba was a well-known survivor of Auschwitz,
who claimed to have seen gassings of people. But in the 1985
trial in Toronto, for the first time he was questioned very
closely under oath, by Doug Christie, Ernst Zundel's attorney,
with advice and with help from Robert Faurisson, the French
revisionist scholar. And Rudolph Vrba collapsed, basically. He
admitted that many of the claims that he had been making, in a
bestselling book about his experiences, were false. And he
resorted, finally, to saying, well, it's "poetic license," it's
an exaggeration - basically, it's a lie.

Another witness, Raul Hilberg, who is the author of a well-known
standard work on the "holocaust" question, was also forced to
concede things, too, that were very astonishing. And these were
reported in the newspapers very widely at the time. Now the
second trial did not receive the same media coverage in Canada,
but it did still receive some. And in the second trial, Fred
Leuchter was one of the most outstanding witnesses. Even David
Irving testified in that trial. I testified for five days in the
trial.

The Canadian Jewish groups, and the American Jewish groups, were
furious at the result, and have done everything in their power to
silence this man.

KAS: So, even after the Holocaust Trial 1 and Holocaust Trial 2
had concluded, and Zundel had been vindicated, they were still
after him to close down the zundelsite.org Web site. Is that
correct?

MW: Right. One of the supreme ironies involving the "Human Rights
Tribunal" was that they were declaring that a booklet called Did
Six Million Really Die?, which was posted on the Zundelsite, was
the first and foremost example of "hatred." The irony is that
this was the same booklet that was the object of dispute in the
two major trials - and the Canadian Supreme Court affirmed the
legality and the lawfulness of publishing and distributing
precisely that booklet.

So, as it were, through the back door, these Canadian Jewish
groups tried to get Ernst Zundel silenced, put in jail, or fined,
for publishing on the Internet what the Canadian Supreme Court
said was legal in printed and published form! It's absurd!

KAS: In addition to this, he was getting violence and threats of
violence at his home in Canada. Can you fill us in on that a
little bit?

MW: He was the victim of numerous physical attacks by Jewish
terrorists. There were, I think, at least three attempts on his
life, including an arson attack. This was a devastating attack on
his home and residence, the so-called Zundelhaus, on Carlton
Street, not far from downtown Toronto.

KAS: Now Mr. Zundel is married to a German-American lady of some
repute as a novelist, lecturer, and historical writer herself.

MW: That's right. Ingrid Rimland is a noted, even distinguished,
author in her own right. She wrote a novel some years ago called
The Wanderers. She's a naturalized American citizen. And one of
the most bizarre, peculiar aspects of this recent arrest, which I
still don't quite know the answer to, is how it's possible for
the husband of an American citizen to be deported. Normally,
that's not done.

And Ernst Zundel has violated no law in the United States or in
Canada. I know - and many others can testify - that he's
scrupulous in obeying laws. But supposedly, having missed some
procedural matter, some hearing, this is again a little unclear,
he's being banned from the United States for twenty years! And
this even though he's married to an American citizen!

Now this is so unusual, this is so unique, that it gives every
appearance of being a targeted action by U.S. authorities against
a man for his political views.

KAS: Now, Dr. Rimland - Mrs. Zundel - is devoting every waking
hour, I presume, to her husband's battle for freedom.

MW: Right.

KAS: She has empowered you to be the public voice in this case.
Is that correct?

MW: She's asked me to do it, because she is pretty distraught,
pretty upset about all of this. And she says she's lost weight,
and it's been very distressing, because it's her husband.

KAS: I can imagine.

MW: Also, she is so close to the matter, she felt that I could
give a little more background or perspective to it all than
perhaps she could. But anyway, I am doing this because she asked
me to.

KAS: Is publicity helpful at this stage?

MW: Yes it is. There's been some coverage in the local newspaper
in Tennessee; there have also been some articles in the Canadian
press. But the more press about this the better. The more media
coverage the better. Because it is really an unfair and unjust
persecution of this man.

As all your listeners know, there are millions of illegal aliens
living here in the United States. For the United States to single
out Ernst Zundel is outrageous. The only groups which have a big
interest in deporting Ernst Zundel are the Jewish groups. And
they've been very vociferous in their demands that Ernst Zundel
be kicked out of the United States.

KAS: Well, he had trouble getting citizenship in Canada, did he
not? And Canada is famous for having a very lax immigration and
naturalization policy. Was it due to Jewish pressure that he
could not obtain Canadian citizenship?

MW: There were no real valid reasons given. His citizenship
request was rejected, even though, as I said, he has no criminal
record in Canada. He's been, actually, a very productive citizen.

Before he became involved in this campaign, he built a very good
career as a graphic artist. He's a very talented artist, and his
artwork appeared widely and commercially in Canada, including
once on the front cover of Maclean's magazine, the equivalent of
Newsweek or Time, the leading news magazine in that country. He's
a man who, I think, would be successful in almost any endeavor,
any field that he had decided to go into.

But even though he has a clean record as far as the law is
concerned in Canada, even though he's been a successful man, a
man who has been no charge on the public system in that country,
his citizenship was rejected. And, as I say, all the Canadian
Jewish organizations, and American Jewish organizations, were
rabid and vociferous in demanding that he not be given
citizenship, that he be silenced, that any pretext be found to
shut this man up.

KAS: So finally, I believe in the year 2000, he decided to become
a naturalized American. He was married to an American citizen. He
was living completely legally in Tennessee. He had followed
through with all the necessary permits and paperwork. What
happened? What was the pretext for this arrest?

MW: It's claimed that he missed a hearing. Now, anyone who knows
Ernst Zundel knows that this is a man who is extremely careful
about dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s of laws and
regulations.

We're also told that his implicit visa or permission to stay in
the United States had expired. But we don't really know yet quite
what the actual reason is. Those are the reasons we're given. But
they don't stand up, they don't make sense.

In any case, it seems that the authorities have seized upon a
pretext to nab him, grab him, and throw him out of the country.

KAS: Initial reports suggest that the order for the arrest came
from "a very high level." What do you know about that?

MW: Well, I don't really know about that. But when heard of the
arrest of Ernst Zundel I immediately thought of an American
Dissident Voices broadcast just a few weeks ago about the
activities of a Mr. Chertoff in the Justice Department, who has
been taking measures to silence Americans whom he doesn't like.
Now, I can't prove any connection - but there do seem to be
increasing activities by American authorities to find pretexts to
silence people. We just don't know the whole story yet.

But it's a very ominous thing, especially during the time that
we're living in right now. Your listeners may know that the Bush
administration is already drafting a new so-called "Patriot Act
2" law, which will give the Attorney General sweeping powers to
arrest and hold people indefinitely as so called "supporters of
terrorism" on very, very flimsy grounds. These are ominous
developments for all Americans.

And the Ernst Zundel arrest seems to be completely consistent
with this effort by the U.S. government in its so-called "War
Against Terrorism" to stamp down dissent of any kind.

KAS: Indeed these are ominous signs.

MW: One of my fears is that, as the attention of the world is
drawn to the impending war against Iraq, measures like the arrest
of Ernst Zundel will not get the attention that they normally
would. Just as with the brutal treatment of the Palestinians -
which is now just incredible. The Palestinians are now living in
a kind of quasi-ghetto or concentration camp. It's just
unbelievable the repression that they're subjected to. But this
is getting a lot less attention and has elicited a lot less
outrage right now, because I think that the attention of most of
the world is turned toward the prospect of a devastating war in
Iraq that may cause the deaths of enormous numbers of people.

KAS: Here we have almost an open border policy in the United
States. Millions of illegal aliens are here. More are pouring
into this country every day. They're openly flouting the law and
taking over huge sections of the United States. They get away
with it. The politicians offer them amnesty. And yet an artist, a
writer, a lifelong pacifist -- Ernst Zundel -- dares to speak
some criticisms of the Jewish lobby, and he's hounded like a
felon.

MW: Yes. You know, there are two contradictory trends going on in
the United States. The same government that wants to "crack down"
and ensure so-called security against so-called terrorism is the
same government that permits millions of illegal aliens to live
here. It's almost schizophrenic. It's crazy. Supposedly, since
September 11th, some 700,000 additional illegal aliens have come
into the United States. At the same time, the American government
is supposedly "cracking down" on security in this country. The
end result of all of this is that it's only able to crack down on
obvious and basically harmless targets like Ernst Zundel. People
who are really dedicated terrorists can easily slip through all
of this precisely because our laws in so many other areas are so
lax.

KAS: I understand that B'nai Brith Canada has issued a statement
urging Canada not to take Ernst Zundel back. Is there some sort
of deeper game being played here?

MW: It's obvious. Both B'nai Brith Canada, which is their
counterpart of the ADL in this country, and the Simon Wiesenthal
Center, another powerful Jewish Zionist organization both in the
United States and Canada, are both demanding that the Canadian
government not accept Ernst Zundel. It's obvious that the only
really important, vociferous, dedicated enemies of Ernst Zundel
are the Jewish groups. No one else, really, regards Ernst Zundel
as any kind of danger.

To me, the outrage of it is that Ernst Zundel is asking for
freedom of speech. The organizations arrayed against him are all
dedicated, staunch apologists for a regime, namely Israel, that
by all standards is violating international law: killing people,
invading other countries. If standards are applied in any kind of
consistent way, it struck me as I was testifying, that the
lawyers of those organizations, and those organizations
themselves, should be in the dock - not Ernst Zundel.

KAS: Indeed. It's a supreme irony: When Ariel Sharon comes to the
United States, he's feted like a hero.

MW: I've said it many times: If the United States applied to
Israel the standards it applies to Serbia or Iraq or other
countries, U.S. bombers would be preparing to bomb Tel Aviv, and
not Baghdad.

KAS: Do you think there is any plan - or any chance - that
Ernst Zundel will be forced to go to Germany?

MW: Apparently there seems to be no immediate prospect of that.
When I spoke to him the other day, he seemed fairly certain that
the next step is that he'll be deported to Canada. But looming
behind all of this is the great danger that he'll be deported to
Europe and thrown in jail.

Just the other week, an 82-year-old man in Switzerland was forced
to start a 13-month prison sentence: Gaston Amaudruz. He's an
82-year-old fellow. He publishes a little newsletter; and for
so-called "denying the holocaust," he's now serving 13 months in
a Swiss prison. Another man, Jean Plantin, has also been
sentenced to imprisonment for his defiance of these same kinds of
laws in France. And similar laws exist in Germany, in Austria, in
the Netherlands, in Belgium, and in other countries. They're
palpably unjust laws because they are selective laws: They apply
only to one chapter of history, the so-called "denying" of the
so-called Jewish "holocaust." No other chapter of history is
treated in this way.

KAS: Is there anything that our listeners can do, any sort of
pressure that we can exert, to prevent this horrible miscarriage
of justice?

MW: They can spread the word, by notifying their newspapers,
their Congressmen, and other people. They can get information
about all this both from the Web site of the Institute for
Historical Review, which is <http://www.ihr.org> or from the
Zundelsite <http://www.zundelsite.org> -- which is linked to our
site, by the way - which has an immense amount of information as
well.

Again, as Ingrid Rimland says: always be firm but polite. Don't
be vindictive, don't use crude language. You can also talk to the
immigration authorities, the I.N.S. Ingrid Rimland, in her recent
daily messages, has provided lists of media and other outlets she
is urging people to contact. But the main thing for information
on all this is to check the IHR site and the Zundelsite.

Robert Faurisson wrote in 1988 about Ernst Zundel, just before
the verdict was handed down in that trial, and I quote:

Zundel may once again go to prison for his research and beliefs,
or be threatened with deportation. All this is possible. Anything
may happen when there is an intellectual crisis and a realignment
of historical concepts on such a dimension. Revisionism is the
great intellectual adventure of the end of this century. Whatever
happens, Ernst Zundel is already the victor.

And that's very true. The great victory is that Ernst Zundel put
on the public record - and made the world much more aware than
it ever was before - of the shoddy, fragile, and bogus nature of
much of what is called the "holocaust" story. And he fortified -
immensely - the international community of those people who have
spent tremendous amounts of time and energy to look at this in a
dissident way.

KAS: Thank you very much, Mark Weber. I urge all of our listeners
to contact you via your Web site and keep updated on this
situation -- and to do everything you can to help free Ernst
Zundel.

MW: Thanks a lot, Kevin, and all the best to you."

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The text above is based on a broadcast of the American Dissident
Voices radio program sponsored by National Vanguard Books.
It is distributed by e-mail each Saturday to subscribers of
ADV-list.
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